He (Jesus) was in the beginning
Many but not all unitarians, believe and teach that St John was NOT teaching in John 1:1, that Jesus the word was with GOD, before all creation, but that Jesus the word was a PLAN, and an INTENTION, in GOD’s mind for Jesus to become His SON and saviour.
In fact I have been having many debates by emails with many of a certain type of unitarians, including a very nice Bible Scholar, and a recognised person with authority in Theology and particularly Christology, who is Anthony Buzzard, who also believes and teaches that Jesus was ONLY a mere man, who never existed before, or until Jesus became the son of GOD, born by Mary.
I will present the biblical facts, which reveals the absolute truth.
Lets not believe what we want to believe, but instead turn to the Bible, and believe the countless scriptures, that give us the Biblical facts.
COUNTLESS SCRIPTURES prove Jesus PRE-EXISTENCE, which we will now EXAMINE.
|They were saying,||ἔλεγον||elegon||3004||to say||a prim. verb|
|"Is not this||οὗτος||outos||3778||this||probably from a redupl. of ho,, used as a demonstrative pronoun|
|Jesus,||Ἰησοῦς||iēsous||2424||Jesus or Joshua, the name of the Messiah, also three other Isr.||of Hebrew origin Yehoshua|
|the son||υἱὸς||uios||5207||a son||a prim. word|
|of Joseph,||Ἰωσήφ||iōsēph||2501||Joseph, the name of several Isr.||of Hebrew origin Yoseph|
|whose||οὗ||ou||3739||usually rel. who, which, that, also demonstrative this, that||a prim. pronoun|
|father||πατέρα||patera||3962||a father||a prim. word|
|and mother||μητέρα||mētera||3384||mother||a prim. word|
|we know?||3609a||to have seen or perceived, hence to know||perf. of eidon|
|How||πῶς||pōs||4459||how?||interrog. adverb from the same as posos|
|does He now||νῦν||nun||3568||now, the present||a prim. particle of pres. time|
|say,||λέγει||legei||3004||to say||a prim. verb|
|I have come down||καταβέβηκα||katabebēka||2597||to go down||from kata and the same as basis|
|out of heaven'?"||οὐρανοῦ||ouranou||3772||heaven||a prim. word|
John 6:50. John 6:58. John 6:62. John 8:23. John 13:3. John 17:5. John 17:8. Micah 5:2. Proverbs 8:23-32. Hebrews 1:2. Hebrews 1:6. 1 Corinthians 15:47. Proverbs 30:4.
For the unitarians who believe Jesus did not EXIST before Mary, please READ: John 1:15 again. As JOHN THE BAPTIST makes this VERY CLEAR.
In the Interlinear Bible it gives us the words: The (One) after me coming, precedence, of me has for before me he was.
The Strong’s Concordance reads and translates the word, precedence, as meaning.
emprosthen, before, in front of, in place or time.
Original Word, ἔμπροσθεν.
Part of Speech, Adverb; Preposition.
Phonetic Spelling, em’-pros-then.
Short Definition, in front, before the face.
Definition. in front, before the face, sometimes made a subst. by the addition of the article, in front of, before the face of.
eimi, I exist, I am,
Original Word, εἰμί.
Part of Speech, Verb.
Phonetic Spelling, i-mee.
Short Definition, I am, exist.
Definition, I am, exist.
Before, πρῶτος Prōtos.
Here we have come to the TWO greatest statements, ever said and declared from the lips of Jesus, confirming His pre-existence.
I believe these two great sayings by Jesus, are the most misunderstood sayings of Jesus, in the Christian world.
Millions of Christians today believe this great, I am, quote, in John 8:58, and I and my Father are one, John 10:30, was about Jesus confirming His DEITY.
I was one who misunderstood this for many years, and now believes these sayings of Jesus are probably one of the most misunderstood sayings of Jesus.
For the unitarians who make Jesus SON into nothing more then a MERE MAN, by teaching Jesus never existed before Mary, need to understand they are wrong, by what this explosive statement, I am, means.
Certain unitarians need to realise, these most famous two words of Jesus saying, I am, should take their theory to extinction.
Also please remember, this is what the conversation was about. The Jews were telling Jesus.
Jesus replied by confirming, before Abraham was born, He already EXISTED
LETS EXAMINE MANY MORE SCRIPTURES, IN THE GOSPEL OF JOHN, REVEALING JESUS PRE-EXISTED, AND CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN.
Καὶ ὁ Λόγος (Logos) σὰρξ ἐγένετο,
And the Word (Jesus) flesh became
καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν,
and dwelt among us
English Standard Version
And the Word (Jesus) became flesh and dwelt among us.
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
NASB Lexicon reads in John 3:13:
"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from
heaven: the Son of Man
οὐδεὶς ἀναβέβηκεν οὐρανὸν
καταβάς οὐρανοῦ υἱὸς ἀνθρώπου
◄ 2597. katabainó ►
katabainó: to go down
Original Word: καταβαίνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ab-ah'-ee-no)
Short Definition: I go down, come down
Definition: I go down, come down, either
from the sky or from higher land, descend.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Interline Interlinear reads in John 3:13: And no one has gone up into heaven if not the (one) out of - heaven having come down the Son of man who is in - heaven καὶ οὐδεὶς ἀναβέβηκεν εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν , εἰ μὴ ὁ ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ καταβάς , ὁ Υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου , ⧼ὁ ὢν ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ⧽
English Standard Version
He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way.
He who comes from heaven is above all.
Jesus said to them, “ very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven.
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”
They were asking, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How then can He say, 'I have come down from heaven?'"
THE JEWS CONFIRMED JESUS DECLARED HE CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN.
But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. John 6:50
English Standard Version
I am the living bread that came down from heaven.
If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever.
And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” John 6:51
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”
Then what will happen if you see the Son of Man ascend to where He was before?
JESUS CONFIRMS HE EXISTED BEFORE.
Then He told them, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
JESUS CONFIRMS IN JOHN 8:23, HE IS FROM ANOTHER WORLD. CONFIRMING HE EXISTED BEFORE
Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;
And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you BEFORE THE WORLD EXISTED.
Notice, Jesus prayed to His Father confirming He had glory with His Father before the world existed, which means He must have existed with GOD before the world was created.
How could Jesus possibly have glory with GOD, BEFORE THE WORLD EXISTED, If Jesus did not exist before Mary?
For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. John 17:8
If Jesus was claiming to be the GOD, He would have repeated the EXACT same words as GOD, by saying (i am who i am). As in Exodus 3:14.
But what did Jesus say?
Instead Jesus only said (i am) which is Jesus name He inherited from the first part of His Fathers name, and means He existed, FIRST.
Which is why Jesus was telling the Jews He existed BEFORE Abraham, which is all in perfect context with the discussion.
Let us again return to the meaning of John 1:1.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God.
Notice St John says Jesus was with GOD at the ‘beginning’ Original Word: ἀρχή, ῆς, ἡ Means literally “the initial (starting point)
Jesus was God’s word, Gods mouth. Original Word: λόγος, ου, ὁ Short Definition: a word, speech, divine utterance, analogy.
Jesus was His Fathers messenger.
He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:2 - 3.
Notice again St John makes this clear, Jesus was with GOD at the beginning, and created all the worlds through His SON Jesus.
Notice, St John confirms nothing was created without Jesus, which must include Angels.
As this is the case then Jesus must have been with GOD before all creation, just as we are told: without him was not any thing made that was made.
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. Colossians 1:15 - 16.
Notice here, Jesus is the firstborn of all creation. Many say this means the firstborn from the dead. But if we continue on with more scriptures below, we clearly see more evidence of Jesus pre-existence before all creation.
But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose coming forth is from of old, from ancient days.
Notice, a prophesy, who will be the ruler in Israel, who can only be Jesus, which again confirms He already existed, as He came from the old, ancient days.
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
Notice yet another verse saying the world was created through Jesus.
Let us now 'EXAMINE' Proverbs 8:22
English Standard Version
“The LORD possessed me at the beginning
of his work, the first of his acts of old.
NASB Lexicon reads:
"The LORD possessed me at the beginning
of His way, Before His works of old.
of old his works before of his way in
the beginning possessed me The LORD
Proverbs 8:22, to 30, seems to be Jesus own words clearly saying: He was established and set up from God the Father who is from everlasting.
Let us have a closer LOOK in Proverbs 8:22, to 30.
In the English Standard Version.
4 TIMES WE READ Jesus was established and set up from God:
1. Verse 22, “The LORD possessed me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old.
2. Verse 23, Ages ago I was set up,
at the first, before the beginning of the earth.
3. Verse 24, I was brought forth,
4. Verse 25. I was brought forth,
From my own research, Proverbs 8:23 – 30 proves, Jesus is the wisdom in Proverbs.
Proverbs 8:22 means what it says. Jesus is subordinate to God, BORN and brought forth as the first of Gods works and before ALL creation, before His works of long ago.
Proverbs 8:23 to 30, is in complete agreement with Colossians, 1:15.
As we also read in Colossians 1:16.
All things were created through him and for him, Jesus.
Jesus was BEFORE the beginning of Genesis.
Then God said,“ let (US) make mankind in (OUR) image, in (OUR) likeness. Genesis 1:26.
Jesus is in the last verse of Revelation.
Jesus was with GOD before ALL creation, and will BOTH be at the close, which makes both GOD and Jesus the authors and finishers.
The “Alpha and Omega” statements have nothing to do with Jesus being God.
The scriptures teach, Jesus is GODS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.
Who else believed Jesus WAS THE FIRST-BORN OF ALL CREATION?
SIR ISAAC NEWTON.
What does Newton, one of the worlds greatest scientists have to say on this subject?
WHEN, AFTER SOME HERETICS HAD TAKEN CHRIST FOR A MERE MAN AND OTHERS FOR THE SUPREME GOD, St John in his Gospel endeavoured to state his nature so that men might have from thence a right apprehension of him and avoid those heresies and to that end calls him the word or logos: we must suppose that he intended that term in the sense that it was taken in the world before he used it when in like manner applied to an intelligent being. For if the Apostles had not used words as they found them how could they expect to have been rightly understood. Now the term logos before St John wrote, was generally used in the sense of the Platonists, when applied to an intelligent being and the Arians understood it in the same sense, and therefore theirs is the true sense of St John.
MORE SUPPORTING TEACHINGS AND SCRIPTURES By English Standard Version.
to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Luke 10:18
who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. Philippians 2:6- 7
Jesus humbled himself to become flesh and human and a servant PROVING He must have pre-existed as Jesus LOWERED himself from a HIGHER STATE.
Who has ascended to heaven and come down? Who has gathered the wind in his fists? Who has wrapped up the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son’s name? Surely you know! Proverbs 30:4