Simon Brown.

Proverbs 8:34-36 Blessed is the man who hears me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at my door posts. For whoever finds me finds life, and will obtain favor from Yahweh. But he who sins against me wrongs his own soul. All those who hate me love death.” Psalm 84: 11 For Yahweh God is a sun and a shield. Yahweh will give grace and glory. He withholds no good thing from those who walk blamelessly. 12 Yahweh of Armies, blessed is the man who trusts in you. 1 John 5:5 Now who is the one overcoming the world, except the one believing that Jesus is the Son of God?

Wednesday 23 October 2019

Subject: The title of this commentary is: FOREKNOWLEDGE AND PREDESTINATION DOES NOT MEAN PREEXISTENCE.

Dear friends, I Simon Brown have added this very useful info I received last year to share with you here on my blog, from Don Smith.

Don Smith 
Welcome and I hope you find this group to be friendly and courteous, regarding the Biblical facts proving Jesus DID NOT PRE-EXIST His FLESH.  

Don Smith. 
I would like to offer some of the Biblical evidence I have gathered that refutes preexistence. In this post below I don't deal with all the verses that seem to imply a preexistence for Jesus. I can do that in separate commentary on each scripture. I’m sure you will recognize that Anthony Buzzard and John Schoenheit have influenced me, as has Dustin Smith and Dale Tuggy, Too many other people to list off the top of my head.  

The title of this commentary is: FOREKNOWLEDGE AND PREDESTINATION DOES NOT MEAN PREEXISTENCE.

 "Begotten today" and "born this day" refutes preexistence. It means Jesus was fathered (procreated by God) in the womb of Mary. Psalms 2:7; Acts 13:33; Isaiah 9:6; Matthew 1:18; Luke 2:11; John 3:16; John 1:14-18 ; Matthew 1:20.  

Strong's Greek 1080. Greek word gennaó meaning : Conceive, Begotten, beget ; which means to to beget, to bring forth, conceive a child, to father a child, procreate a descendant, produce offspring; be born. 

 In the past YHWH spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, BUT IN THESE LAST DAYS YHWH has spoken to us by His Son, whom He APPOINTED heir of all things, and THROUGH whom He made the ages." [this present age and the ages to come] HEBREWS 1:1-2   

Note: The Greek word  ion" does not mean "universe" or "world" and should be translated as "ages" which means a span of time, and in this context "aion" refers back to the statement "in these last days" which is a clear reference to the Age of Grace; Church Age; this present age; these last days; and the future Kingdom Age when Jesus reigns on earth. 

Since most translators are Trinitarian, they think that Jesus was the one who made the heavens and earth, and they improperly translate “aion” as “world” or "universe" in verse 2. However, there are other Greek words that mean "universe" or “world,” such as kosmos and oikoumene. It is more accurate to conclude "in these last days," through Jesus, YHWH has made the ages: “the Church Age; the Age of Grace, and the future kingdom Age” through Jesus. Besides being an obvious mistranslation these verses do not say YHWH spoke through Jesus in the past, so it is incorrect to assume Jesus created anything.  

"But NOW HE has been revealed ONCE, AT THE END OF THE AGES, to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself." Hebrews 9:26   

"But WHEN the FULLNESS OF TIME CAME, God SENT HIS SON, born from a woman, born under the law, in order to redeem those who were under the law so that we could receive adoption as sons." Galatians 4:4  

"He was FOREKNOWN BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, BUT WAS REVEALED IN THESE LAST TIMES for your sake, who THROUGH him are believers in God, the one who raised him out from among the dead and gave him glory so that your trust and hope are in God." 1 Peter 1:20  

Jesus the Messiah was begotten and born. That means he had a beginning. To say otherwise conflicts with the entire doctrine of salvation because Yahweh cannot die. 

The Bible says YAH provided us with His only Begotten Son Jesus to die for our sins. If his death was not a real death, then there is no forgiveness of sins.   

“Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which GOD PERFORMED THROUGH HIM (Jesus) in your midst, just as you yourselves know — this Man (Jesus), delivered over by the PREDETERMINED PLAN AND FOREKNOWLEDGE OF GOD, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death." Acts 2:22-2  
NOTE: Cross reference (Revelation 13:8) for more proof of foreknowledge and predestination of Jesus crucifixion. YHWH's prophets and representatives were clearly FOREKNOWN by him in advance of their true existence.  "........This grace was given us in Christ Jesus BEFORE THE BEGINNING OF TIME, but it has NOW BEEN REVEALED THROUGH THE APPEARING OF OUR SAVIOR, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel." 2 Timothy 1:9-10  

This clearly means that, in YHWHs foreknowledge, grace was planned for us in Christ, but was revealed by the appearing of our Savior 2000 years ago.   

"BEFORE I FORMED THEE in the belly I KNEW THEE; and BEFORE THOU CAMEST FORTH out of the womb I SANCTIFIED THEE, and I ORDAINED THEE A PROPHET.." Jeremiah 1:5  

Believers have been FOREKNOWN by YAHWEH and PREDESTINED by Him for sonship in Christ Jesus.  "For whom he did FOREKNOW, he also did PREDESTINATE to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." Romans 8:29   "He hath chosen US (the believers) in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD." Ephesians. 1:4  

"He had AFORE PREPARED UNTO GLORY." Rom. 9:23  
These verses are not saying believers pre-existed before creation, but rather they existed purely in Gods mind, in his foreknowledge, and in his purpose, from the beginning.  

"Therefore, do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the good news—relying on the power of God who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not based on our works, but based on his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before the ages of time, but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and immortality to light through the good news, to which I was appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher, which is why I also am suffering these things." 2 Timothy 1:8-12 (REV Bible)   

According to Paul, Christians were given grace “before the ages of time." Does that mean we were alive with YAH in eternity before we were born? 

Most Christians accept it to mean we were in YAH's foreknowledge “in the mind of YAH." The same is true for Jesus in John 17:5 where he asks for the glory he had “with the Father” before the world began. 

These kinds of statements in the Bible relate to YAH's foreknowledge and divine plan from eternity. “Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Revelation 13:8   

Was Jesus slain before the earth was made? Of course not. Jesus was crucified long AFTER the foundation of the world. 
What John obviously means is that Jesus was appointed as Savior of the world before the world was formed. This means God’s plan (logos), from the beginning, before the earth was formed, was to be carried out through the person of Jesus.  

Reading preexistence into scripture rather than accepting predestination, destroys the harmony of the Bible. 
Jesus and all believers existed in Gods foreknowledge as a forethought (divine plan) before the earth was created. 

 "See now that I myself am He! There is no God besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand._* Deuteronomy 32:39  

"If only there was a MEDIATOR between us, who might lay his hands upon us both." Job 9:33 No mediator.....means no Jesus in the OT. 

"IF ONLY there was one who would PLEAD FOR A MAN WITH YAHWEH, as a man pleads for his brother." Job 16:21 No one to plead for a man with YHWH means no Jesus.  

"But HE IS ALONE, so who can make Him change? What He desires to do, that is what He does._* Job 23:13 He is alone means no Jesus with him. 

The book of Job leaves no doubt that there was NO MEDIATOR between YAH and man and NO pre-existent god WITH YAHWEH who acted as a mediator between Him and man at the time Job existed (long before Jesus was begotten and born). 

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