Simon Brown.

Join me on this journey. Let's seek the truth together! 💡 Proverbs 8:34-36 Blessed is the man who hears me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at my door posts. For whoever finds me finds life, and will obtain favor from Yahweh. But he who sins against me wrongs his own soul. All those who hate me love death.” Psalm 84: 11 For Yahweh God is a sun and a shield. Yahweh will give grace and glory. He withholds no good thing from those who walk blamelessly. 12 Yahweh of Armies, blessed is the man who trusts in you. 1 John 5:5 Now who is the one overcoming the world, except the one believing that Jesus is the Son of God.

Tuesday, 25 August 2026

If God Cannot Die, Who Really Died on the Cross?

Quick Facts study asking: Can God become a man and die, as Jesus did? Examining whether the immortal God can die and what Scripture says about Jesus as a man and the Son of God.

A detailed biblical research infographic examining the question: Can God become a man and die, as Jesus did? It compares Scriptures describing God as immortal with passages identifying Jesus as a man, the Son of Man and the Son of God who died and was raised from the dead by God.

QUICK FACTS: CAN GOD BECOME A MAN AND DIE, AS JESUS DID?

IF GOD CANNOT DIE, BUT JESUS DIED, WHAT DOES THAT TELL US ABOUT JESUS?

There is one question concerning the identity of Jesus that every Christian should seriously consider:

CAN GOD ALMIGHTY DIE?

This is not merely a philosophical question.

It goes directly to the heart of the Gospel because Christianity depends upon one absolutely essential event:

JESUS CHRIST REALLY DIED FOR OUR SINS.

Paul tells us:

1 CORINTHIANS 15:3 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

“Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures.”

Therefore, Jesus could not merely appear to die.

Nor can his death be reduced to something happening merely to his physical body while the actual person of Jesus remained alive elsewhere.

The Gospel declares:

CHRIST DIED.

He was buried.

And God raised him from the dead.

So if God Almighty is inherently immortal and cannot die, yet Jesus genuinely did die, we have an extremely important question to answer:

WAS JESUS GOD ALMIGHTY — OR THE MORTAL SON OF THE IMMORTAL GOD?

Let us examine the biblical evidence.


JESUS WAS A MAN

The New Testament repeatedly identifies Jesus as a man.

Jesus himself said:

JOHN 8:40 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

“But now you seek to kill Me, a man who has spoken to you the truth, which I heard from God.”

Notice carefully what Jesus says.

He identifies himself as:

“A MAN”

and distinguishes himself from:

“GOD”

from whom he heard the truth.

Paul makes the distinction equally clear:

1 TIMOTHY 2:5 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

“For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

Paul identifies two:

ONE GOD

and

THE MAN CHRIST JESUS.

Jesus is the mediator between God and humanity.

The mediator is not the God to whom he mediates.


JESUS WAS THE SON OF MAN

Jesus repeatedly called himself:

THE SON OF MAN.

For example:

MATTHEW 20:28 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

“Even as the Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.”

Jesus therefore identifies himself as the Son of Man who would give his life.

Now compare this with what Scripture says about God:

NUMBERS 23:19

“God is not a man… nor a son of man…”

The contrast deserves serious consideration.

God is not a man.

Jesus was a man.

God is not a son of man.

Jesus repeatedly called himself the Son of Man.

If we begin with Scripture rather than a later theological formula, this distinction is difficult to ignore.


JESUS REALLY DIED

Now we reach the central issue.

Jesus did not merely lose consciousness.

Jesus did not merely abandon his physical body.

JESUS DIED.

Paul summarizes the Gospel:

1 CORINTHIANS 15:3–4 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

“Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.”

Look carefully at the sequence:

CHRIST DIED.

CHRIST WAS BURIED.

CHRIST WAS RAISED.

The person who died is the person who was subsequently raised.

Scripture does not say:

“Only the human nature of Christ died.”

It says:

“CHRIST DIED.”


GOD, HOWEVER, IS IMMORTAL

Now compare the death of Jesus with Paul's description of God.

1 TIMOTHY 6:16 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

Paul describes God as:

“the only One having immortality…”

Immortality means being not subject to death.

This presents us with the fundamental question:

IF GOD CANNOT DIE, HOW COULD GOD DIE ON THE CROSS?

Jesus died.

God is immortal.

Therefore, saying simply:

“JESUS IS GOD”

creates a question that must be answered rather than assumed away.


THE TRADITIONAL “TWO NATURES” ANSWER

Traditional Trinitarian theology recognizes this difficulty.

It therefore explains that Jesus possessed two natures:

a divine nature

and

a human nature.

The usual explanation is that Jesus died according to his human nature, while his divine nature remained immortal.

But here we must ask an extremely important question:

WHERE DOES SCRIPTURE SAY THAT?

Where does the Bible say:

“JESUS' HUMAN NATURE DIED, WHILE HIS DIVINE NATURE REMAINED ALIVE”?

There is no verse that says this.

This is a later theological explanation designed to reconcile two propositions:

Jesus is God.

and

Jesus died.

But Scripture itself uses much simpler language:

JESUS CHRIST DIED.


DID ONLY PART OF JESUS DIE?

This becomes extremely important.

If Jesus' supposed divine nature remained consciously alive and immortal throughout his death, then in what sense did the whole person Jesus Christ actually die?

The Bible does not describe Jesus as:

partly dead and partly alive.

It does not say:

his humanity was dead while his deity remained alive.

Instead:

CHRIST DIED.

Then:

GOD RAISED CHRIST FROM THE DEAD.

Peter declares:

ACTS 2:24

God raised Jesus up, releasing him from death.

Again we have two clearly distinguishable subjects:

GOD — THE ONE WHO RAISED.

JESUS — THE ONE WHO WAS DEAD AND WAS RAISED.


WITHOUT THE DEATH OF JESUS, THERE IS NO GOSPEL

This is why the issue matters enormously.

The death of Jesus is not an optional detail of Christianity.

Jesus' death is the sacrifice through which forgiveness and salvation are proclaimed.

Paul says:

“CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS.”

If Christ did not genuinely die, then Christ did not genuinely die for our sins.

And if Christ was not genuinely raised from death, Paul's argument becomes devastating:

1 CORINTHIANS 15:17

“And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.”

Therefore:

THE REAL DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF JESUS ARE ESSENTIAL TO CHRISTIAN FAITH.

We cannot redefine death in such a way that Jesus remained alive throughout the very period Scripture describes as his death.


WHAT ABOUT JESUS' “DIVINE NATURE”?

Another distinction must be made.

Jesus can perfectly express and reveal the nature, character and glory of his Father without therefore being the immortal God himself.

Paul calls Jesus:

COLOSSIANS 1:15

“the image of the invisible God.”

Hebrews describes the Son as the radiance of God's glory and the exact expression of His substance.

But being the image of God distinguishes Jesus from the God whose image he bears.

Jesus himself said:

JOHN 14:9

“The one having seen Me has seen the Father.”

Why?

Because Jesus perfectly revealed his Father.

God's character, authority, words and works were manifested through His Son.

But sharing or displaying God's nature does not automatically mean possessing God's inherent immortality.

And Scripture demonstrates the difference very dramatically:

GOD CANNOT DIE.

JESUS DID DIE.


THE SIGN OF JONAH IS VERY IMPORTANT

Jesus himself prophesied what would happen to him.

MATTHEW 12:40 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

“For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”

Notice who Jesus says would be in the heart of the earth:

THE SON OF MAN.

He does not say:

“My body will be there while I remain alive elsewhere.”

Nor does he say:

“My human nature will die while my divine nature continues consciously living.”

Jesus speaks about himself.

The Son of Man would be in the heart of the earth.

And the rest of Scripture explains what happened:

CHRIST DIED.

CHRIST WAS BURIED.

CHRIST WAS RAISED ON THE THIRD DAY.

That is the sign of Jonah in the context of Jesus' death and resurrection.


WHAT ABOUT THE “SPIRITS IN PRISON”?

Some Christians argue that Jesus remained consciously alive after his crucifixion and went to preach to spirits in prison, usually appealing to 1 Peter 3:18–20.

But that passage should not simply be assumed to mean:

“JESUS WAS ALIVE WHILE HIS BODY WAS DEAD.”

Peter's difficult statement must be interpreted alongside the Bible's much clearer statements concerning Christ's death and resurrection.

We should not allow one disputed passage to overturn the repeated proclamation:

JESUS DIED.

JESUS WAS BURIED.

GOD RAISED JESUS FROM THE DEAD.

Whatever Peter means concerning the spirits in prison, the passage does not explicitly teach the later Trinitarian formula:

“Jesus' human nature was dead while his divine nature remained consciously alive.”


WHAT ABOUT JOHN 1:1?

Many Christians will immediately ask:

What about:

JOHN 1:1?

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Then John says:

JOHN 1:14 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us…”

The crucial question is:

WHAT WAS “THE WORD”?

The Greek word logos can describe God's word, message, expression, reason or purpose.

Under the interpretation I have come to accept, Jesus is what God's word became when it became flesh.

Notice John's wording:

“THE WORD BECAME FLESH.”

John does not actually say:

“God the Son transformed himself into flesh.”

That terminology is not in the verse.

God's word, wisdom, purpose and promise became embodied in:

THE MAN JESUS CHRIST.


HEBREWS SAYS GOD SPOKE THROUGH HIS SON “IN THESE LAST DAYS”

Hebrews begins:

HEBREWS 1:1–2 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

“God, having spoken long ago to our fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son…”

Notice the contrast:

Previously:

GOD SPOKE THROUGH THE PROPHETS.

But:

“IN THESE LAST DAYS”

God has spoken through:

HIS SON.

The passage distinguishes:

GOD — the One speaking

from

HIS SON — the One through whom God speaks.


YAHWEH SAYS HE CREATED EVERYTHING

Isaiah gives us another crucial piece of evidence.

ISAIAH 44:24

Yahweh declares that He made all things, stretched out the heavens and spread out the earth.

The language emphasizes Yahweh's unique creative sovereignty:

YAHWEH MADE ALL THINGS.

Likewise:

ISAIAH 45:18

Yahweh identifies Himself as Creator and declares:

“I AM YAHWEH, AND THERE IS NO OTHER.”

And:

ISAIAH 45:5

“I AM YAHWEH, AND THERE IS NO OTHER; BESIDES ME THERE IS NO GOD.”

These passages must form part of any biblical investigation into whether Jesus existed alongside God as another divine person participating in creation.


JESUS HIMSELF SAID HE WAS THE SON OF GOD

Perhaps we should finish where Jesus himself directs us.

Jesus said:

JOHN 10:36 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

“You are blaspheming,” because I said, “I am Son of God”?

Jesus does not defend himself by saying:

“I AM GOD.”

He identifies his claim as:

“I AM SON OF GOD.”

John then tells us exactly why he wrote his Gospel:

JOHN 20:31 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

“But these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.”

John wants us to believe:

JESUS IS THE CHRIST.

JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD.


THE BIBLICAL FACTS

Put the evidence together:

God is immortal.

Jesus died.

Jesus was a man.

Jesus was the Son of Man.

Jesus was buried.

Jesus said he would be in the heart of the earth.

God raised Jesus from the dead.

Jesus called himself the Son of God.

Jesus identified his Father as the only true God.

Paul identified:

“ONE GOD”

as:

“THE FATHER.”

1 CORINTHIANS 8:6

And Jesus prayed:

JOHN 17:3 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”


FINAL CONCLUSION

Final conclusion examining the question: If God is immortal and cannot die, but Jesus really died for our sins, who actually died on the cross?

A biblical research infographic examining the final question of Christ's death: if God is immortal and cannot die, but Jesus genuinely died for our sins, how can Jesus be the immortal God? The image highlights Christ's death, burial and resurrection and asks whether the claim that only Jesus' human nature died is explicitly taught in Scripture.

The question therefore remains remarkably simple:

IF GOD CANNOT DIE, BUT JESUS REALLY DIED, HOW CAN JESUS BE THE IMMORTAL GOD WHO CANNOT DIE?

Saying that only Jesus' human nature died while his divine nature remained immortal does not come from an explicit biblical statement.

More importantly, it raises the very question it is supposed to solve:

WHO ACTUALLY DIED FOR OUR SINS?

The Bible's answer is:

CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS.

Not merely a nature.

Not merely a body.

CHRIST DIED.

He was buried.

And:

GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.

This genuine death is absolutely essential because without Christ's death for our sins and his resurrection from the dead, the Gospel itself collapses.

The biblical distinction is beautifully simple:

GOD IS IMMORTAL.

JESUS, THE SON OF GOD, DIED FOR OUR SINS.

GOD RAISED HIS SON FROM THE DEAD.

And therefore we should believe exactly what John tells us he wrote his Gospel to establish:

“JESUS IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD.”

JOHN 20:31

Research by Simon Brown
wwwrealdiscoveriesorg-simon.blogspot.com

Does “Elohim” Mean One, Two, or Three?

Quick Facts: Does Elohim mean one, two, or three? Does the Hebrew word Elohim prove that God is a Trinity?

A detailed biblical research infographic examining the Hebrew word Elohim and whether its plural form proves that God is a Trinity. The study compares Genesis 1:1, the Shema, the teachings of Jesus and other biblical passages concerning the one God.

QUICK FACTS: DOES “ELOHIM” MEAN ONE, TWO, OR THREE?

DOES THE HEBREW WORD ELOHIM PROVE THAT GOD IS A TRINITY?

Some Christians have argued that because the Hebrew word Elohim (אֱלֹהִים) has a plural form, it provides evidence that God consists of more than one person—or even that the Old Testament contains an early revelation of the Trinity.

But is that really what the Hebrew Bible teaches?

The question cannot be answered simply by looking at the ending of the word Elohim.

We must examine how the word actually functions in Hebrew Scripture.


GENESIS 1:1 GIVES US AN IMPORTANT CLUE

The Bible begins:

GENESIS 1:1

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”

The Hebrew word translated “God” is:

אֱלֹהִים — ELOHIM

Although Elohim has a plural morphological form, the verb translated “created” — bara (בָּרָא) — is singular.

In other words, the Hebrew does not say:

“In the beginning Gods created…”

It presents Elohim as the singular Creator.

This grammatical point is also emphasized in the research supplied by biblical scholar Anthony Buzzard: Elohim in Genesis 1:1 is followed by a singular verb—“he created,” not “they created.”

That immediately creates a serious problem with using the plural form of Elohim as proof that God is multiple persons.


ELOHIM DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN “GODS”

The word Elohim can indeed refer to gods when the context requires a numerical plural.

But it can also refer to a single individual.

Most importantly, when Elohim designates the God of Israel, it overwhelmingly takes singular grammatical agreement.

Therefore:

THE FORM OF THE WORD ALONE DOES NOT TELL US HOW MANY PERSONS GOD IS.

The context and grammar determine its meaning.

Anthony Buzzard's research summarizes the distinction:

Elohim has a plural meaning when referring to pagan “gods,” but a singular meaning when referring to the one God or even an individual pagan deity.

This means we cannot simply reason:

Elohim ends in -im → therefore Elohim means “Gods” → therefore God contains multiple persons → therefore the Trinity.

That conclusion does not follow from Hebrew grammar.


WHAT ABOUT “LET US MAKE MAN”?

What does “Let Us make man in Our image” mean in Genesis 1:26? Genesis 1:27 immediately returns to singular language: God created man in His own image.

A detailed biblical study image examining Genesis 1:26–27 and the words “Let Us make man in Our image.” It highlights how Genesis 1:27 immediately returns to singular language, saying that God created man in His own image, and asks whether Genesis actually identifies the “Us” as three persons of a Trinity.

Genesis 1:26 famously says:

“Let Us make man in Our image…”

This is frequently combined with Elohim to argue for plurality within God.

But notice what happens immediately afterward:

GENESIS 1:27

“And God created man in His own image…”

The text returns immediately to singular language.

God created.

His image.

The passage never says:

“The Father, Son and Holy Spirit created man.”

Nor does Genesis identify the “Us” as three persons of one God.

Whatever interpretation we ultimately give Genesis 1:26, the verse itself does not define the “Us” as the Trinity.


THE SHEMA DEFINES ISRAEL'S GOD

The Shema defines Israel’s God as one. Deuteronomy 6:4 declares Yahweh our God is one, and Jesus reaffirms this confession in Mark 12:29.

A detailed biblical study image examining the Shema in Deuteronomy 6:4 and Jesus’ reaffirmation of it in Mark 12:29. Jesus repeated Israel’s confession that the Lord our God is One Lord rather than replacing it with a statement that God is three persons.

The great confession of Israel declares:

DEUTERONOMY 6:4

“Hear, O Israel: Yahweh our God, Yahweh is one.”

Jesus himself reaffirmed this commandment.

When asked:

“Which commandment is the first of all?”

Jesus answered:

MARK 12:29 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

“The foremost is, ‘Hear this O Israel: The Lord our God is One Lord.’”

Jesus did not replace Israel's confession of one God with a new statement that God is three persons.

He reaffirmed it.


JESUS IDENTIFIED HIS FATHER AS THE ONE TRUE GOD

Jesus prayed:

JOHN 17:3 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”

Notice the distinction:

YOU — the Father — the only true God

and

JESUS CHRIST — the One whom God sent.

Paul gives us the same basic distinction:

1 CORINTHIANS 8:6 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

“Yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we through Him.”

Paul identifies:

ONE GOD — THE FATHER.

He then distinguishes that one God from:

ONE LORD — JESUS CHRIST.


YAHWEH SAYS HE CREATED THE HEAVENS

Isaiah 44:24 declares that Yahweh made all things, stretched out the heavens by Himself and spread out the earth, identifying Yahweh as the Creator.

A detailed biblical research image examining Isaiah 44:24 and Nehemiah 9:6, where Yahweh is identified as the Creator of the heavens and the earth. The study also examines Yahweh, El and Elohim and the Bible’s repeated use of singular language when referring to the one God.

Isaiah contains an especially important declaration:

ISAIAH 44:24

Yahweh identifies Himself as the Creator who stretched out the heavens and spread out the earth.

The language emphasizes God's unique creative sovereignty.

Likewise, Nehemiah declares that Yahweh alone made the heavens and the earth.

The research supplied for this article also points to the repeated biblical identification of Yahweh, El and Elohim with the one God, accompanied by singular pronouns such as He, Him, I and Me.

Thousands of singular references to God cannot simply be overturned because Elohim happens to possess a plural morphological form.


DOES “ECHAD” MEAN A COMPOUND ONE?

Another argument sometimes made is that the Hebrew word:

אֶחָד — ECHAD

translated “one” in Deuteronomy 6:4, supposedly means a “compound unity.”

Genesis 2:24 is often cited:

“And they shall become one flesh.”

Because Adam and Eve are two people yet become “one flesh,” it is argued that echad can mean a plurality within unity.

But there is a simple problem.

Echad still means “one.”

The thing described by it may contain multiple components.

For example:

one family

one congregation

one cluster of grapes

The plurality comes from the noun, not from the word one.

Anthony Buzzard's study makes this same grammatical observation: echad is the ordinary Hebrew numeral “one,” while the noun it modifies can itself describe something collective.

Therefore, echad itself does not mean “three-in-one.”


DOES ELOHIM PROVE THE TRINITY?

NO.

The plural form of Elohim cannot by itself establish that God consists of two persons, three persons, or any number of persons.

When referring to Israel's God, the word is repeatedly accompanied by:

singular verbs,

singular adjectives in many constructions,

singular pronouns,

and descriptions of God speaking as:

I, Me, He and Him.

The Bible never explains Elohim by saying:

“ELOHIM MEANS THREE PERSONS IN ONE GOD.”

That definition has to be brought to the word from a later theological system.

It cannot simply be extracted from the Hebrew word itself.


THE REAL QUESTION

The issue therefore is not:

“IS ELOHIM PLURAL IN FORM?”

It is.

The real question is:

“DOES THAT PLURAL FORM MEAN THAT THE GOD OF ISRAEL IS MULTIPLE PERSONS?”

The biblical grammar does not establish that conclusion.

And this is extremely important.

We should not begin with a theological doctrine and then try to make a Hebrew word prove it.

We should allow Scripture to define its own terms.

Jesus himself repeated Israel's confession:

“THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD.”

MARK 12:29

Jesus then prayed to his Father:

“YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD.”

JOHN 17:3

And Paul wrote:

“TO US THERE IS ONE GOD, THE FATHER.”

1 CORINTHIANS 8:6

Therefore, whatever else Christians may argue about the Trinity from other passages:

THE HEBREW WORD “ELOHIM” IS NOT, BY ITSELF, PROOF OF THE TRINITY.

That claim goes beyond what the Hebrew word actually demonstrates.

Research by Simon Brown
wwwrealdiscoveriesorg-simon.blogspot.com

Monday, 24 August 2026

QUICK FACTS: WHO WERE THE FALSE TEACHERS AFTER THE APOSTLES?

Quick Facts: Who Were the False Teachers After the Apostles? Examining the early Church Fathers, the Trinity and the Bible.

A biblical investigation examining warnings about false teachers after the apostles, the early Church Fathers, the development of Trinitarian doctrine, and the importance of testing every teaching against Scripture.

QUICK FACTS: WHO WERE THE FALSE TEACHERS AFTER THE APOSTLES?

DID THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS PRESERVE THE FAITH OF THE APOSTLES — OR DID CHRISTIAN TEACHING BEGIN TO CHANGE?

Research by Simon Brown

WHO WERE THE FALSE TEACHERS AFTER THE APOSTLES?

Jesus and His apostles repeatedly warned that false prophets, false teachers and deceivers would arise.

Jesus warned:

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.”

Matthew 7:15

Peter likewise warned that false teachers would arise among believers and introduce destructive teachings.

2 PETER 2:1 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

“But there were also false prophets among the people, as also there will be false teachers among you, who will stealthily introduce destructive heresies…”

John also warned that deceivers had already appeared during the apostolic period.

This raises an extremely important historical question:

WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE APOSTLES DIED?

Did Christianity simply preserve exactly what Jesus and His apostles had taught?

Or did theological ideas gradually develop during the generations that followed?

That question becomes especially important when we investigate the identity of Jesus.

WHAT DID JOHN SAY WE MUST BELIEVE ABOUT JESUS?

John 20:31 – What did John say we must believe about Jesus? Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

A detailed biblical illustration of John writing his Gospel, highlighting John 20:31 and its declaration that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing in Him brings life in His name.

Near the conclusion of his Gospel, John explains why he wrote it:

JOHN 20:31 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

“But these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.”

Notice John's language carefully.

He does not say:

BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS GOD THE SON.

He does not say:

BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE SECOND PERSON OF A TRIUNE GOD.

He says:

JESUS IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD.

Jesus Himself used the same identification:

JOHN 10:36 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

“I said, ‘I am Son of God’?”

And Jesus distinguished Himself from the One whom He identified as the only true God:

JOHN 17:3 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”

For me, therefore, this is where our investigation must begin.

Not with Nicaea.

Not with later creeds.

Not even with the Church Fathers.

WE MUST BEGIN WITH JESUS AND THE APOSTLES.

JOHN WARNED ABOUT DECEIVERS

Jesus and the apostles warned that deceivers and false teachers would arise and corrupt Christian teaching.

A biblical research image showing Jesus and the apostles alongside the warnings of John, Peter and Paul concerning deceivers, false teachers and another Jesus, emphasizing the need to test Christian teachings against Scripture.

John writes:

2 JOHN 1:7

“For many deceivers have entered into the world, those not confessing Jesus Christ coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.”

John's warning was written while Christianity was still young.

Peter likewise warned that false teachers would come among them.

Paul warned:

2 CORINTHIANS 11:4 — BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE

“For if indeed the one coming proclaims another Jesus whom we did not proclaim…”

These warnings demonstrate something extremely important:

THE APOSTLES THEMSELVES EXPECTED CHRISTIAN TEACHING TO BE CORRUPTED.

Therefore, simply showing that a doctrine was taught by an early Christian writer does not automatically prove that the doctrine came from Jesus or the apostles.

Age alone does not establish truth.

The teaching must still be tested against Scripture.

ENTER THE “APOSTOLIC FATHERS”

After the apostolic period we encounter writers commonly called the Apostolic Fathers.

These include such figures as:

Clement of Rome,

Ignatius of Antioch,

Polycarp of Smyrna,

and Papias of Hierapolis,

together with early Christian works such as the Didache and Shepherd of Hermas.

This raises a provocative but important question:

Could some of the theological developments appearing after the apostles represent precisely the sort of departure from apostolic teaching that the New Testament warned would occur?

That question deserves serious investigation.

But we must also be fair with the historical evidence.

We cannot simply call every Apostolic Father a false prophet because he lived after the apostles.

Neither can we assume that every surviving writing attributed to an early Christian writer perfectly represents the original apostolic faith.

Instead, we should examine each writer, each document and each statement individually.

TRINITARIANS FREQUENTLY APPEAL TO THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS

Trinitarians frequently appeal to the early Church Fathers as evidence that Christians believed Jesus was God before the Council of Nicaea.

A detailed biblical history image examining the early Church Fathers frequently quoted in support of the deity of Christ and asking whether their teachings should be accepted as apostolic or tested against Scripture.

Christian apologists defending the deity of Christ frequently quote early Church Fathers as evidence that Christians believed Jesus was God long before the Council of Nicaea.

For example, statements attributed to Ignatius include expressions translated:

“Jesus Christ, our God.”

Other passages attributed to him contain language such as:

“our God Jesus Christ.”

Justin Martyr likewise used extraordinarily elevated language about Christ.

Therefore Trinitarian apologists argue:

“LOOK — CHRISTIANS CALLED JESUS GOD LONG BEFORE NICAEA.”

There is an important point here that should honestly be acknowledged:

Some surviving pre-Nicene Christian writings really do contain very high language about Jesus.

We should not hide that evidence.

But the real question is:

WHAT DOES THAT EVIDENCE ACTUALLY PROVE?

DID THESE EARLY WRITERS TEACH THE FULL TRINITY?

Did the early Church Fathers teach the full Trinity? Examining whether early Christian writings support the later doctrine of three persons in one God.

A detailed biblical history image examining whether the early Church Fathers taught the complete later doctrine of the Trinity, and distinguishing exalted language about Jesus from the formal doctrine of one God in three co-equal, co-eternal persons.

Finding an early writer calling Jesus “God” or using exalted language about Christ does not by itself demonstrate the complete later doctrine of the Trinity.

The doctrine eventually formulated through the theological controversies surrounding Nicaea in AD 325 and subsequent fourth-century councils involved highly specific questions concerning:

The Father,

the Son,

the Holy Spirit,

divine substance,

eternal generation,

and the relationship between the three Persons.

These formulations did not simply appear in their complete later form immediately after the apostles.

Christian theology developed through generations of controversy and debate.

Therefore two extreme claims should both be avoided.

It would be historically too simplistic to say:

“NOBODY BELIEVED JESUS WAS DIVINE BEFORE NICAEA.”

Some very early Christian writings clearly use extraordinarily exalted language concerning Jesus.

But it is equally misleading to claim:

“THE COMPLETE NICENE TRINITY WAS TAUGHT EXACTLY AS LATER DEFINED BY ALL CHRISTIANS FROM THE DAYS OF THE APOSTLES.”

The surviving historical evidence presents a considerably more complicated development.

IGNATIUS DESERVES PARTICULAR ATTENTION

Ignatius of Antioch is especially important because several writings attributed to him contain striking language about Jesus.

But there is another historical issue that serious research must acknowledge:

THE LETTERS OF IGNATIUS HAVE THEIR OWN TEXTUAL HISTORY.

Different recensions of the Ignatian letters circulated.

Some later forms contain expansions.

Therefore, whenever a quotation from Ignatius is being used to establish doctrine, we should ask:

Which letter?

Which recension?

What Greek wording survives?

How early is the manuscript evidence?

Is the quotation accepted as belonging to the authentic shorter recension?

These questions are far stronger than simply accepting a quotation because it appears on a Christian apologetics website.

If manuscript evidence matters when studying the Bible, then manuscript evidence should also matter when studying the Church Fathers.

POLYCARP PRESENTS AN INTERESTING CONTRAST

Polycarp is another extremely early Christian writer.

Notice the distinction contained in this passage attributed to Polycarp:

“Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal high priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ…”

That is significant.

Here we have:

THE GOD AND FATHER OF JESUS CHRIST

and

JESUS CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD.

That sounds remarkably similar to language repeatedly found throughout the New Testament.

And that is precisely why these writings should be examined individually rather than simply lumped together under the general label:

“THE CHURCH FATHERS.”

Quick Facts: David Pawson and the Trinity – Did “Gods” Create the World, or Did Yahweh Create It Alone?

Quick Facts: David Pawson and the Trinity – Did Gods create the world or did Yahweh create it alone?

A detailed Quick Facts research image examining David Pawson’s Trinitarian teaching concerning creation and comparing it with Isaiah 44:24, John 17:3, 1 Corinthians 8:6 and other biblical passages identifying the one God and Creator.

QUICK FACTS: DAVID PAWSON AND THE TRINITY

DID “GODS” CREATE THE WORLD — OR DID YAHWEH CREATE IT ALONE?

There was a time when I had enormous respect for the Bible teacher David Pawson.

Before examining his teaching concerning the Trinity and creation, I want to explain my personal connection with David Pawson, because I do not want readers to think this article was written because I personally disliked the man.

In fact, the opposite was true.


MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH DAVID PAWSON

For approximately the first ten years of my Christian life, I was myself a Trinitarian.

During that period, I did some work as a cameraman at Revelation TV, where I had the opportunity to meet David Pawson, who was already a very popular and respected Christian Bible teacher.

When I first heard David Pawson teaching, I was extremely impressed.

I loved the calm and compelling way he spoke, and I was impressed by his extensive knowledge of the Bible.

I regarded him as a sincere Christian teacher, and I wanted to learn as much as I possibly could from him.

At that time, I was:

HUNGRY TO UNDERSTAND THE WORD OF GOD.

When I discovered that David Pawson had produced an extensive collection of Bible-teaching DVDs, I decided to purchase the entire collection.

I SPENT MORE THAN £500 ON HIS BIBLE TEACHING SERIES.

That should demonstrate just how highly I regarded David Pawson at the time.

I wasn't looking for reasons to criticise him.

I WANTED TO LEARN FROM HIM.

However, something unexpected happened when I began watching the series.


THE FIRST RED FLAG

Despite purchasing a huge collection of David Pawson's teachings, I did not get very far through them.

While watching the first part of the series, I heard David teaching about the location of Mount Sinai.

He presented the traditional identification of Mount Sinai with the Sinai Peninsula in Egypt, associated with the area around Saint Catherine's Monastery.

That immediately raised a red flag for me.

Why?

Because I had already spent considerable time researching the subject of Mount Sinai, and there was a biblical statement I could not simply ignore.

Paul wrote:

Galatians 4:25 — Berean Literal Bible

“NOW HAGAR IS MOUNT SINAI IN ARABIA…”

Whatever conclusion we ultimately reach concerning the precise geographical location of the biblical mountain, those words:

“MOUNT SINAI IN ARABIA”

needed to be taken seriously.

I had also been examining archaeological claims concerning possible locations for Mount Sinai in Arabia.

So I decided to write to David Pawson.


I WROTE TO DAVID PAWSON

I contacted him because I genuinely believed I had seen biblical and archaeological evidence that he might want to consider.

I received a reply which, as I remember it, essentially questioned who I was to challenge him on the subject.

I became concerned that perhaps my first letter had sounded disrespectful, which had never been my intention.

So I wrote again.

This time I apologised and explained that I was not claiming to be some great Bible scholar. I was simply pointing him toward what I believed Scripture said concerning Mount Sinai and Arabia, together with archaeological evidence I had encountered.

I did not receive another reply.

That experience stayed with me.

I had spent more than £500 because I genuinely wanted to learn from this man, yet very early in the series I had encountered something which appeared to conflict with my own understanding of Scripture.

Eventually, I found that I could no longer continue watching the collection in the same way.


YEARS LATER, SOMETHING MUCH BIGGER HAPPENED

Years passed.

I was still a Trinitarian.

Then I encountered Bible teachers who challenged something far more fundamental than the location of Mount Sinai.

They challenged me to examine:

THE TRINITY ITSELF.

Initially, this was not something I simply wanted to accept.

After approximately ten years of believing that God was a Trinity, I had to ask myself a difficult question:

DOES THE BIBLE ACTUALLY TEACH WHAT I HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED?

So I began searching the Scriptures for myself.

I examined the words of God.

I examined the teachings of Jesus.

I examined the apostles.

And gradually I became convinced that the doctrine I had accepted for years could not be reconciled with what I was finding throughout Scripture concerning:

THE ONE GOD — THE FATHER

and:

JESUS CHRIST — HIS SON.

That completely changed the direction of my Bible research.

To this day, I remain thankful to God for the Bible teachers who encouraged me to test what I believed against Scripture, rather than simply accepting a doctrine because Christianity had taught it to me.


I LATER TRIED TO REACH DAVID PAWSON ABOUT THE TRINITY

Because I had once respected David Pawson so highly, I wanted him to examine the same biblical evidence that had caused me to reconsider my own Trinitarian beliefs.

I therefore tried to communicate through comments on some of his YouTube teachings.

Sadly, this never developed into the biblical discussion I had hoped for. Some of my comments were removed, and I was unable to persuade him to reconsider his Trinitarian position.

David Pawson remained firmly committed to the Trinity throughout his ministry.

Eventually, in 2020, David Pawson died.

I was genuinely saddened to hear of his death, and I felt for his family and those who had known and loved him.

Whatever disagreements I later had with his theology, I have never forgotten that this was once a man whose Bible teaching I admired so much that I spent hundreds of pounds buying his teaching collection.

That is important for readers to understand.


THIS ARTICLE IS ABOUT TESTING TEACHINGS — NOT ATTACKING A MAN

David Pawson may have been completely sincere in what he believed.

But sincerity cannot determine biblical truth.

Neither can popularity.

Neither can qualifications.

Neither can decades of ministry.

And neither can I.

SCRIPTURE MUST BE THE TEST.

That principle applies to David Pawson.

It applies to every Trinitarian teacher.

It applies to Unitarian teachers.

And it applies equally to me, Simon Brown.

If anything I teach contradicts the Word of God:

DO NOT BELIEVE ME.

Test it.

Search the Scriptures.

That is precisely what the Bereans did.

Acts 17:11 — Berean Literal Bible

They received the word eagerly,

“EVERY DAY EXAMINING THE SCRIPTURES, WHETHER THESE THINGS WERE SO.”

That is the spirit in which I want this research to be read.

Now we can examine a remarkable statement in David Pawson's teaching concerning the Trinity and creation.


QUICK FACTS: DID “GODS” CREATE THE WORLD?

In one of David Pawson's teachings about the Trinity, he used language referring to “Gods” in connection with creation.

This raises an extremely important biblical question.

If the Father is God,

the Son is God,

and the Holy Spirit is God,

and all three participated as God in creating the world:

HOW MANY WHO ARE GOD CREATED THE WORLD?

Three?

Or one?

This is precisely where I believe the traditional doctrine creates a problem that needs to be examined against Scripture.

Rather than simply accepting theological explanations, let's look at what God Himself says.


WHO DOES ISAIAH SAY CREATED EVERYTHING?

One of the clearest statements occurs in Isaiah.

Isaiah 44:24

Yahweh identifies Himself as the Creator.

The passage describes Him as the One who made all things, stretched out the heavens and spread out the earth.

Most importantly, the text uses extraordinarily exclusive language.

The question we therefore need to ask is:

WHO WAS WITH YAHWEH DOING THE CREATING?

If Yahweh was three divine persons creating together, we might expect Scripture to explain this.

Instead, Isaiah repeatedly presents Yahweh speaking as one personal speaker:

“I”

and describes His creative work in exclusive terms.

This creates a serious question for the claim that three distinct persons, each fully God, performed the act of creation together.


WHO IS YAHWEH?

This brings us to the central question.

Who is the one God?

Jesus gives us an extraordinarily clear statement.

John 17:3 — Berean Literal Bible

Jesus prayed to His Father and called Him:

“THE ONLY TRUE GOD.”

Notice who is speaking.

Jesus.

And notice to whom He is speaking.

HIS FATHER.

Jesus distinguishes between:

“YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD”

and:

“JESUS CHRIST, WHOM YOU SENT.”

We therefore have two clearly distinguished individuals:

1. The Father — the only true God.

2. Jesus Christ — the One whom that God sent.

Paul gives us the same basic distinction.


PAUL SAYS THERE IS ONE GOD — THE FATHER

1 Corinthians 8:6 — Berean Literal Bible

“YET TO US THERE IS ONE GOD, THE FATHER…”

Paul doesn't say:

“There is one God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”

Instead, he identifies the one God as:

THE FATHER.

He then distinguishes Jesus from that one God:

“AND ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST.”

This distinction occurs repeatedly throughout the New Testament.


THE FATHER IS NOT THE SON

Interestingly, Trinitarian theology itself insists that:

The Father is not the Son.

And:

The Son is not the Father.

I agree that the Father and Son are distinct persons.

But this creates an important question when combined with the biblical statement that:

THE ONE GOD IS THE FATHER.

If the Father is the one God, and the Son is not the Father, how can the Son simultaneously be the very same one God identified as the Father?

This is one of the fundamental questions I believe Trinitarian theology needs to answer from Scripture.


DID JESUS EVER SAY HE WAS THE SAME GOD AS HIS FATHER?

Throughout the Gospel of John, Jesus continually speaks about His Father.

John 8:19

Jesus speaks of:

“MY FATHER.”

John 10:36

Jesus describes Himself as:

“SON OF GOD.”

John 17:3

Jesus calls His Father:

“THE ONLY TRUE GOD.”

John 20:17

After His resurrection, Jesus speaks of:

“MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.”

These statements establish a consistent relationship.

There is:

GOD

and there is:

THE SON OF GOD.

Jesus never says:

“I am God the Son.”

He never says:

“God is three persons.”

And He never teaches His disciples:

“The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three co-equal persons who together constitute the one God.”

Instead, Jesus identifies His Father as His God.


SO WHAT ABOUT CREATION?

This brings us directly back to David Pawson's teaching.

If we say there are three distinct persons who are each God and that these three participated in creation as God, we need to reconcile that claim with the statements where Yahweh describes Himself as the Creator using singular and exclusive language.

Isaiah does not present three Gods announcing:

“WE CREATED THE WORLD.”

The Creator speaks as:

“I.”

And this same biblical pattern occurs again and again.

The God of Israel is presented as one.


THE GREATEST COMMANDMENT

This was not merely an Old Testament idea that Jesus later replaced with a Trinity.

When Jesus was asked about the greatest commandment, He began by quoting Israel's confession concerning God.

Mark 12:29 — Berean Literal Bible

“HEAR THIS, O ISRAEL: THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD.”

Jesus did not correct this Jewish understanding by saying:

“You have misunderstood God. God is actually three persons.”

Instead, Jesus affirmed the confession of Israel.

And shortly afterwards, the scribe responded:

Mark 12:32 — Berean Literal Bible

“HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NOT ANOTHER BESIDES HIM.”

Jesus did not rebuke him.

Jesus told him:

“YOU ARE NOT FAR FROM THE KINGDOM OF GOD.”

That is enormously important.


ONE GOD — NOT THREE GODS

This is why I believe language about multiple divine persons creating the universe needs to be examined very carefully.

The issue is not whether David Pawson was sincere.

I believe he was.

The issue is whether his theological framework can be reconciled with the biblical statements concerning the identity of the one God.

The Bible repeatedly presents God as:

ONE.

Jesus calls the Father:

THE ONLY TRUE GOD.

Paul says:

THERE IS ONE GOD, THE FATHER.

And Jesus Himself has:

A GOD AND FATHER.

So if three distinct persons are each individually fully God, we must still answer the simple question:

WHY DOES THIS NOT AMOUNT TO THREE WHO ARE GOD?

Calling those three “one God” does not by itself answer the question.

It must be demonstrated from Scripture.


JESUS IS NOT DIMINISHED BY BEING THE SON OF GOD

Rejecting the claim that Jesus is God Almighty does not mean rejecting Jesus.

Quite the opposite.

I believe Jesus exactly as Scripture identifies Him:

THE CHRIST.

THE SON OF GOD.

THE ONE BEGOTTEN BY GOD.

THE ONE SENT BY GOD.

THE ONE ANOINTED BY GOD.

THE ONE RAISED FROM THE DEAD BY GOD.

THE ONE EXALTED BY GOD.

THE ONE GIVEN ALL AUTHORITY BY GOD.

Jesus Himself said:

John 10:36 — Berean Literal Bible

“I SAID, ‘I AM SON OF GOD.’”

And John tells us why his Gospel was written:

John 20:31 — Berean Literal Bible

“BUT THESE HAVE BEEN WRITTEN SO THAT YOU MAY BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD.”

That is the identity I believe Scripture gives Jesus.


THE QUESTION DAVID PAWSON'S TEACHING LEAVES US WITH

David Pawson was an intelligent, knowledgeable and highly respected Bible teacher.

I once admired his teaching enormously.

But no teacher stands above Scripture.

Not David Pawson.

Not the early Church Fathers.

Not the councils.

Not modern theologians.

And certainly not me.

So forget personalities for a moment and consider the question itself:

IF THE FATHER IS GOD,

THE SON IS GOD,

AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD,

AND THESE ARE THREE DISTINCT PERSONS,

HOW ARE THERE NOT THREE WHO ARE GOD?

And concerning creation:

DID THREE PERSONS WHO ARE EACH GOD CREATE THE WORLD?

Or should we accept the straightforward declaration of the God of Israel, who speaks of Himself as the Creator?

This is why every Christian should follow the example of the Bereans and examine these teachings carefully against Scripture.


FINAL CONCLUSION

I once accepted the Trinity.

I once listened to teachers such as David Pawson believing that what I was hearing represented biblical Christianity.

But eventually I realised that I had a responsibility to test everything against the Word of God.

That same responsibility belongs to every reader.

Do not believe something simply because Simon Brown says it.

Do not believe something simply because David Pawson said it.

Do not believe something simply because a church has taught it for centuries.

SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES.

Ask:

Who did Jesus say the only true God is?

Who did Paul identify as the one God?

Who is Jesus' God?

Who did Yahweh say created the heavens and the earth?

And then ask the question at the centre of this research:

DOES THE BIBLE REALLY TEACH THAT GOD IS THREE PERSONS?

Or does Scripture consistently reveal:

ONE GOD, THE FATHER

and:

ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD?

The decision should never be based upon tradition.

It should be based upon the Word of God.

Research by Simon Brown

wwwrealdiscoveriesorg-simon.blogspot.com

You tube videos:

 EXPOSING FALSE TEACHERS ON REVELATION TV!

EXPOSING Dr. Grady S. McMurtry On Revelation TV!

According to Dr. Grady, John 14:9, John 10:30, PROVES Jesus is GOD Almighty!

FALSE TEACHINGS of Dr Grady John 10:30.

Dr. Grady McMurtry's FALSE TEACHING on HELL!

Dr Grady McMurtry says 2 Corinthians 5:8 proves the saints are in HEAVEN! 

David Pawson & Answers in Genesis, FALSE TEACHINGS on the TRINITY.


Dr. Grady McMurtry False teachings: John 14:9 & John 10:30 – Do These Verses Really Prove Jesus Is God Almighty?

 

Quick Facts John 14:9 and John 10:30 examining whether Jesus saying whoever has seen Him has seen the Father and I and the Father are one proves Jesus is God Almighty.

A detailed Bible research image examining John 14:9 and John 10:30 and the claim that these verses identify Jesus as God Almighty. The study compares Jesus’ statements with John 14:10, John 17:3, John 17:21–22, John 10:36, Colossians 1:15 and 1 Corinthians 8:6.

QUICK FACTS: JOHN 14:9 & JOHN 10:30

DO JOHN 14:9 AND JOHN 10:30 REALLY PROVE THAT JESUS IS GOD ALMIGHTY?

Some Trinitarian teachers, including Dr. Grady McMurtry, appeal to John 14:9 and John 10:30 as evidence that Jesus is God Almighty.

But is that what Jesus actually said?

Rather than beginning with a theological doctrine and reading it back into these verses, let's examine Jesus' own words and their immediate context.


QUICK FACT 1 — JOHN 14:9

Berean Literal Bible

“Jesus says to him, ‘Am I with you so long a time, and you have not known Me, Philip? The one having seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, “Show us the Father”?’”

John 14:9

The argument is often:

Jesus said:

“THE ONE HAVING SEEN ME HAS SEEN THE FATHER.”

Therefore:

JESUS MUST BE GOD.

But there is an immediate problem with interpreting Jesus' statement as meaning:

“I AM THE FATHER.”

The Trinity doctrine itself teaches that:

The Son is NOT the Father.

So Jesus cannot have meant that Philip was literally looking at the Father Himself.

What, then, did Jesus mean?


LET JESUS EXPLAIN HIS OWN WORDS

We don't have to guess, because Jesus continues speaking in the very next verse.

John 14:10 — Berean Literal Bible

“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak from Myself; but the Father dwelling in Me does His works.”

Notice carefully what Jesus says:

“THE FATHER DWELLING IN ME DOES HIS WORKS.”

Jesus does NOT say:

“I AM THE FATHER.”

Instead, Jesus distinguishes Himself from the Father who is dwelling in Him.

This gives us the context for understanding:

“THE ONE HAVING SEEN ME HAS SEEN THE FATHER.”

Jesus perfectly revealed His Father.


JESUS IS THE IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD

Paul uses remarkably similar language:

Colossians 1:15 — Berean Literal Bible

“He is the image of the invisible God…”

Notice the distinction:

Jesus is:

THE IMAGE

of:

THE INVISIBLE GOD.

An image perfectly represents the one whose image it is.

This fits naturally with Jesus' statement:

“THE ONE HAVING SEEN ME HAS SEEN THE FATHER.”

Jesus revealed the character, works, authority and nature of the Father who sent Him.


HEBREWS MAKES THE SAME POINT

Hebrews 1:3 describes the Son as:

“THE RADIANCE OF HIS GLORY AND THE EXACT IMPRINT OF HIS SUBSTANCE…”

Again we have a distinction between the Son and the One whose glory and substance He represents.

Jesus is therefore the perfect revelation of His God and Father.


JESUS SAID THE FATHER SENT HIM

Throughout John's Gospel, Jesus repeatedly distinguishes Himself from God who sent Him.

John 8:42 — Berean Literal Bible

“…for I came forth from God and am here; for not even have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.”

And Jesus later prayed:

John 17:3 — Berean Literal Bible

“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”

Jesus identifies:

THE FATHER

as:

“THE ONLY TRUE GOD”

and then distinguishes Himself as:

“JESUS CHRIST WHOM YOU HAVE SENT.”

This provides essential context when interpreting John 14:9.


QUICK FACT 2 — JOHN 10:30

Now let's examine another verse frequently used as a Trinity proof text.

Jesus said:

John 10:30 — Berean Literal Bible

“I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.”

Does Jesus say:

“I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE GOD”?

NO.

The words “one God” do not appear in John 10:30.

Jesus simply says:

“I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.”

So the question is:

ONE IN WHAT SENSE?


JOHN'S GOSPEL GIVES US THE ANSWER

Jesus later prayed concerning His disciples:

John 17:11 — Berean Literal Bible

“…Holy Father, keep them in Your name, which You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.”

Look carefully:

“THAT THEY MAY BE ONE AS WE ARE.”

If being “one” made Jesus and His Father one literal being or one person, then the same reasoning would make all of Jesus' disciples one literal being.

Obviously, that is not what Jesus meant.


JESUS MAKES IT EVEN CLEARER

John 17:21–22 — Berean Literal Bible

Jesus prayed:

“that all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You…”

And:

“that they may be one, as We are one.”

This is extremely important for understanding John 10:30.

Jesus uses the language of oneness for His followers.

The disciples remain many individual persons, yet they are to become:

ONE

through unity, agreement, love, faith and purpose.

Therefore, when Jesus says:

“I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE”

the statement does not by itself mean:

“I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE GOD.”

That phrase simply isn't there.


LOOK AT THE CONTEXT OF JOHN 10

Jesus had been talking about His sheep.

John 10:27

“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.”

Jesus then says:

John 10:28

“And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish to the age, and no one will seize them out of My hand.”

Then Jesus speaks about His Father:

John 10:29

“My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all, and no one is able to seize them out of the hand of the Father.”

Then comes:

John 10:30

“I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.”

Notice the parallel:

NO ONE CAN SEIZE THEM FROM JESUS' HAND.

and:

NO ONE CAN SEIZE THEM FROM THE FATHER'S HAND.

Then Jesus concludes:

“I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.”

The context therefore naturally concerns the united work of the Father and Son in protecting the sheep.


JESUS ALSO SAID THE FATHER GAVE THEM TO HIM

John 10:29 contains another important detail:

“MY FATHER WHO HAS GIVEN THEM TO ME…”

The Father is the giver.

Jesus is the recipient.

Once again, Jesus and His Father are working in complete unity, but they remain distinguishable throughout the passage.


JESUS EVEN IDENTIFIES HIMSELF AS THE SON OF GOD

Only a few verses later Jesus answers His opponents.

John 10:36 — Berean Literal Bible

“…do you say, ‘You blaspheme,’ of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, because I said,

‘I AM SON OF GOD’?”

Notice what Jesus himself identifies as His claim:

He does NOT say:

“I SAID, I AM GOD.”

He says:

“I SAID, I AM SON OF GOD.”

And once again:

THE FATHER SANCTIFIED HIM.

THE FATHER SENT HIM.

This distinction is built directly into Jesus' explanation.


PUT JOHN 14:9 AND JOHN 10:30 TOGETHER

Now the picture becomes much clearer.

JOHN 14:9

“The one having seen Me has seen the Father.”

WHY?

Jesus immediately explains:

JOHN 14:10

“THE FATHER DWELLING IN ME DOES HIS WORKS.”

And:

JOHN 10:30

“I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.”

ONE WHAT?

Jesus uses the same language concerning His followers:

JOHN 17:22

“THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, AS WE ARE ONE.”

The passages therefore do not require the conclusion that Jesus was claiming to be the same God as His Father.

They describe the extraordinary unity between God and His Messiah.


THE SIMPLE BIBLICAL DISTINCTION

The Bible repeatedly presents:

ONE GOD — THE FATHER

and:

ONE LORD — JESUS CHRIST.

Paul states this plainly:

1 Corinthians 8:6 — Berean Literal Bible

“yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things and we for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we through Him.”

Notice that Paul does not define the “one God” as Father, Son and Holy Spirit in this verse.

He identifies:

“ONE GOD, THE FATHER.”

And separately:

“ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST.”


QUICK FACT CONCLUSION

Do John 14:9 and John 10:30 actually say:

JESUS IS GOD ALMIGHTY?

NO — NEITHER VERSE SAYS THOSE WORDS.

John 14:9 tells us that seeing Jesus is seeing the Father perfectly represented through His Son.

Jesus himself explains:

“THE FATHER DWELLING IN ME DOES HIS WORKS.”

John 10:30 tells us:

“I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.”

But Jesus later prays that His disciples:

“MAY BE ONE, AS WE ARE ONE.”

And within the very same John 10 discussion Jesus identifies His claim as:

“I AM SON OF GOD.”

The distinction remains:

THE FATHER IS GOD.

JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD.

THE FATHER SENT THE SON.

THE FATHER DWELLED AND WORKED THROUGH HIS SON.

THE FATHER AND SON ARE PERFECTLY UNITED.

Therefore, rather than taking two short statements in isolation, we should allow Jesus' own explanations to determine their meaning.

That is the difference between simply reading a Trinity doctrine into these verses and asking:

WHAT DID JESUS ACTUALLY SAY?

Research by Simon Brown
wwwrealdiscoveriesorg-simon.blogspot.com

OLD RESEARCH

John 14:9 — The Correct Meaning

You tube videos:

 EXPOSING FALSE TEACHERS ON REVELATION TV!

EXPOSING Dr. Grady S. McMurtry On Revelation TV!

According to Dr. Grady, John 14:9, John 10:30, PROVES Jesus is GOD Almighty!

FALSE TEACHINGS of Dr Grady John 10:30.

Dr. Grady McMurtry's FALSE TEACHING on HELL!

Dr Grady McMurtry says 2 Corinthians 5:8 proves the saints are in HEAVEN! 

David Pawson & Answers in Genesis, FALSE TEACHINGS on the TRINITY.

RELATED ARTICLES:

Dr Grady McMurtry's FALSE TEACHING on HELL!

Quick Facts: 2 Corinthians 5:8 – Are Dead Christians Already Alive in Heaven?  

 Quick Facts: Revelation TV – Testing the Trinity Against the Word of God

Hebrews 1:10 – Did God Really Say to the Son, “You Laid the Foundation of the Earth”?

Quick Facts: 2 Corinthians 5:8 – Are Dead Christians Already Alive in Heaven According to Dr Grady McMurtry?

 

quick-facts-2-corinthians-5-8-dead-christians-alive-in-heaven.jpg

A Bible-study examination of 2 Corinthians 5:8 comparing Paul's words about being at home with the Lord with passages concerning death, resurrection and the return of Jesus Christ.

QUICK FACTS: 2 CORINTHIANS 5:8

DOES 2 CORINTHIANS 5:8 PROVE THAT DEAD CHRISTIANS ARE ALREADY ALIVE IN HEAVEN?

Some Christians, including Dr. Grady McMurtry, appeal to 2 Corinthians 5:8 as evidence that when a Christian dies, the person immediately leaves the body and consciously enters Heaven to live with the Lord.

But is that actually what Paul said?

Let's examine the verse in its context and compare Paul's words with his other teachings about death, resurrection, and the return of Jesus Christ.


WHAT DOES 2 CORINTHIANS 5:8 ACTUALLY SAY?

2 Corinthians 5:8 — Berean Literal Bible

“Now we are confident and are pleased rather to be absent out of the body, and to be at home with the Lord.”

This verse is often paraphrased as though Paul said:

“TO BE ABSENT FROM THE BODY IS TO BE PRESENT WITH THE LORD.”

But notice carefully:

PAUL DID NOT SAY THAT.

He said that he would prefer to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

The verse itself does not tell us that the instant a Christian dies, a conscious soul travels immediately to Heaven.

So we need to ask:

WHEN DID PAUL EXPECT TO BE WITH CHRIST?

For the answer, we should allow Paul himself to explain.


PAUL'S HOPE WAS THE RESURRECTION

Paul repeatedly places the Christian hope at the future resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:22–23 — Berean Literal Bible

“For as indeed in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in the own order: Christ the firstfruit; then those of Christ at His coming.”

Notice the sequence:

CHRIST WAS RAISED.

CHRIST WILL RETURN.

THOSE WHO BELONG TO CHRIST WILL BE MADE ALIVE.

Paul does not say:

“Those belonging to Christ are already alive in Heaven.”

Instead:

“THOSE OF CHRIST AT HIS COMING.”


WHEN DO THE DEAD IN CHRIST RISE?

Paul gives an extraordinarily clear answer:

1 Thessalonians 4:16 — Berean Literal Bible

“Because the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.”

When?

WHEN THE LORD DESCENDS FROM HEAVEN.

And who rises?

“THE DEAD IN CHRIST.”

Paul therefore places their resurrection at the future return of Christ.


THEN THE BELIEVERS WILL BE WITH THE LORD

The next verse is especially important.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 — Berean Literal Bible

“Then we the living who remain will be caught away together with them in the clouds, for the meeting of the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.”

Notice Paul's order:

Jesus returns.

The dead in Christ rise.

Living believers join them.

Then:

“SO WE WILL ALWAYS BE WITH THE LORD.”

That provides important context for understanding Paul's desire to be:

“AT HOME WITH THE LORD.”

in 2 Corinthians 5:8.


PAUL DID NOT WANT TO REMAIN “NAKED”

The immediate context of 2 Corinthians 5 is also frequently overlooked.

Paul writes:

2 Corinthians 5:2–4 — Berean Literal Bible

“And indeed, in this we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling which is from heaven, if indeed also having been clothed, we will not be found naked. And indeed, being in the tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not desire to be unclothed, but to be clothed, so that the mortal may be swallowed up by life.”

This is crucial.

Paul does not merely say:

“I WANT TO BE UNCLOTHED.”

He actually says:

“WE DO NOT DESIRE TO BE UNCLOTHED, BUT TO BE CLOTHED.”

And why?

“SO THAT THE MORTAL MAY BE SWALLOWED UP BY LIFE.”

Paul's concern is therefore connected with receiving immortality, not merely escaping from a physical body as a disembodied soul.


WHEN IS MORTALITY SWALLOWED UP?

Paul explains this elsewhere.

1 Corinthians 15:52–54

At the last trumpet:

“The dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.”

Then:

“this mortal will have put on immortality.”

And only then:

“DEATH HAS BEEN SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY.”

Compare that with 2 Corinthians 5:

“that the mortal may be swallowed up by life.”

The language strongly connects Paul's hope with the future transformation and resurrection of believers.


WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT DAVID?

If righteous believers automatically entered Heaven when they died, David would surely be an important example.

But Peter says:

Acts 2:34 — Berean Literal Bible

“For David did not ascend into the heavens…”

David was a faithful servant of God.

Yet Peter explicitly says:

DAVID DID NOT ASCEND INTO HEAVEN.

That should make us very cautious about using 2 Corinthians 5:8 to claim that all deceased believers are already there.


DANIEL DESCRIBES THE DEAD AS SLEEPING

Daniel's prophecy describes resurrection this way:

Daniel 12:2

“And many sleeping in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”

Notice the language:

SLEEPING

IN THE DUST

THEY SHALL AWAKE

The biblical hope is not presented here as souls already enjoying everlasting life in Heaven.

It is:

RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD.


THE DEAD “KNOW NOTHING”

Ecclesiastes gives another striking description:

Ecclesiastes 9:5

“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing…”

And Ecclesiastes 9:10 says concerning Sheol:

“There is no work, nor plan, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in Sheol, where you are going.”

Whatever interpretation we adopt of 2 Corinthians 5:8 must be considered alongside passages like these rather than allowing one sentence to overturn the wider biblical picture.


PAUL HIMSELF USED THE LANGUAGE OF SLEEP

Paul describes deceased Christians as those who have:

“FALLEN ASLEEP.”

In 1 Thessalonians 4:13–14 he comforts Christians concerning believers who had died.

His answer is not simply:

“Don't worry—they are already alive with Jesus in Heaven.”

Instead, Paul's explanation leads directly to the return of Christ and resurrection:

1 Thessalonians 4:16

“THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST.”

That is Paul's great consolation.


WHAT DID PAUL EXPECT FOR HIMSELF?

This becomes even clearer near the end of Paul's life.

2 Timothy 4:6–8

Paul knew his death was approaching.

He wrote:

“I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.”

But when did Paul expect his reward?

He says:

“From now on, the crown of righteousness is laid up for me, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award me in that day; and not only to me, but also to all those loving His appearing.”

Notice:

“IN THAT DAY.”

And:

“HIS APPEARING.”

Once again Paul's expectation looks forward to the future coming of Christ.


SO WHAT DID PAUL MEAN BY “AT HOME WITH THE LORD”?

Paul was living under persecution and knew death could come.

But death could not destroy his hope.

From the standpoint of someone who dies and remains unconscious until resurrection, there is no experienced passage of centuries.

The next conscious experience would be awakening at the resurrection.

Therefore, Paul's two great realities could be expressed as:

PRESENT — MORTAL LIFE IN THIS BODY

and:

FUTURE — IMMORTAL LIFE WITH CHRIST

The intervening state of death is not the object of Paul's hope.

His desire is to reach the destination:

TO BE WITH THE LORD.

And Paul's other writings repeatedly tell us when believers are gathered to Christ:

AT HIS COMING AND THE RESURRECTION.


AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION

We should also be careful not to make 2 Corinthians 5:8 say more than it actually says in either direction.

The verse itself does not explicitly describe the intermediate state of the dead.

Paul does not say in this verse:

“The dead are unconscious in their graves.”

But neither does he say:

“The instant a Christian dies, his conscious soul goes directly to Heaven.”

That conclusion has to be brought into the verse.

Therefore, the safest method is to interpret the passage alongside Paul's much clearer statements about resurrection.


PAUL'S TEACHING FITS TOGETHER

Put Paul's statements alongside one another:

2 Corinthians 5:8

Paul desires to be at home with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:16

At Christ's return, the dead in Christ will rise.

1 Thessalonians 4:17

After that resurrection:

“SO WE WILL ALWAYS BE WITH THE LORD.”

1 Corinthians 15:52

The dead are raised:

“AT THE LAST TRUMPET.”

1 Corinthians 15:53

The mortal then puts on:

IMMORTALITY.

This gives us a coherent sequence:

DEATH

SLEEP

CHRIST RETURNS

THE DEAD IN CHRIST RISE

MORTALITY PUTS ON IMMORTALITY

BELIEVERS ARE WITH THE LORD


QUICK FACT CONCLUSION

Does 2 Corinthians 5:8 explicitly say:

“WHEN A CHRISTIAN DIES, HIS SOUL IMMEDIATELY GOES TO HEAVEN”?

NO.

Paul says:

“to be absent out of the body, and to be at home with the Lord.”

But Paul's other writings tell us that his great expectation was:

THE RETURN OF JESUS CHRIST.

THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.

THE TRANSFORMATION TO IMMORTALITY.

AND THEN BEING FOREVER WITH THE LORD.

This is why 2 Corinthians 5:8 should not be isolated from Paul's wider teaching and turned into a doctrine that the dead are already consciously living in Heaven.

Paul's hope was not:

ESCAPING THE BODY AT DEATH.

Paul's hope was:

RESURRECTION AND IMMORTALITY AT THE COMING OF CHRIST.

As Paul himself wrote:

1 Thessalonians 4:16–17

“THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST.”

and then:

“SO WE WILL ALWAYS BE WITH THE LORD.”

That is the hope Paul taught Christians to look forward to.


OLD ARTICLE

Read the full research article

Research by Simon Brown
wwwrealdiscoveriesorg-simon.blogspot.com

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