Simon Brown.

Proverbs 8:34-36 Blessed is the man who hears me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at my door posts. For whoever finds me finds life, and will obtain favor from Yahweh. But he who sins against me wrongs his own soul. All those who hate me love death.” Psalm 84: 11 For Yahweh God is a sun and a shield. Yahweh will give grace and glory. He withholds no good thing from those who walk blamelessly. 12 Yahweh of Armies, blessed is the man who trusts in you. 1 John 5:5 Now who is the one overcoming the world, except the one believing that Jesus is the Son of God?

Thursday 4 January 2018

Scripture No 3. John 8:58. Was GOD’s Son claiming to be His GOD in Exodus 3:14, when Jesus said: before Abraham was, I am, in John 8:58?

John 8:58 The Meaning of (I am) 2 GREAT DECEPTIONS.

Part 1

Part 2

Full length videos below:

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Before Abraham was,
 I am.
John 8:58.

Quick FACTS!  

By Simon Brown.

What did Jesus mean when He said: “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” (ἐγὼ εἰμί)?  

I will show you how John 8:58 is yet again another GREAT deception because MOST have been deceived into believing Jesus was saying He was GOD and that He EXISTED BEFORE ABRAHAM, when this is false.  

What did Jesus mean: Before Abraham was, I am?  

The SIMPLE answer is in John 4:25 and 26: 
The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.”(ἐγὼ εἰμί)    

The Greek word in John 8:58 for I am is (ἐγὼ εἰμί), which is IDENTICAL to the Greek word in John 4:26 and is again I am (ἐγὼ εἰμί).

The word (Messiah Original Word: Μεσσίας, ου, ὁ) NEVER, EVER MEANS I AM GOD, but simply means: (the Anointed One).  

The word (Christ Original Word: Χριστός, οῦ, ὁ), NEVER EVER MEANS I AM GOD, but simply means: the Anointed One, Messiah, Christ  

(I am) is in the Bible over 700 times, and NEVER EVER MEANS I AM GOD.

(I am) NEVER, EVER MEANS Jesus was ALIVE before He was BORN.

(I am) Simon Brown, which NEVER EVER MEANS I AM GOD, or that I was ALIVE before I was BORN.

(I am) is not a secret code or the actual name of God. It is actually giving a meaning to the word YHWH.
See comment below by Mr Dudley.

Just as (I am) is giving a meaning to Jesus teachings meaning (I am the one).

Jesus was simply saying to the Jews, before Abraham was, I am.” (ἐγὼ εἰμί)  the chosen one, the Messiah, I am He, who was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you 1 Peter 1:20.    

This teaching by Jesus is so very simple to understand, and yet MOST do not understand what Jesus meant in John 8:58 and believe Jesus was teaching He was ALIVE with GOD before all Creation, and yet Jesus did not even say He SAW Abraham, but said in John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”  

The conversation between the Jews and Jesus was about Jesus confirming that He already existed in GOD’s mind and plan before Abraham was born. 

English Standard Version 
“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know—this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. Acts 2:22,3.

This can be seen when the Jews said: Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? John 8:57.  

This adds up perfectly with the LEXICON translation, which clearly reveals the “I am”: εἰμί eimi.   The definition here means (I am the one) “I exist” meaning Jesus already existed in GODS mind and plan as (precedence).  

Jesus is considered as first priority in importance, order and rank, which is confirmed by John the Baptist in John 1:15, John 1:30, which is again why we read in Colossians 1:17 Jesus is before all things, who is the chosen Messiah.  

Sadly the rebellious Jews often did NOT believe Jesus teachings, and therefore did not understand Jesus, and instead wanted Him dead, buried and out the way, so they could get back to conning people in the temple.

Notice how Jesus DID NOT SAY to the Samaritan woman (I AM GOD)?

Notice how Jesus did NOT say to the Jews: Before Abraham was, I am (GOD).

Watch video here

Full Article:

Trinitarians say and believe that in this scripture Jesus was referring to being GOD, when GOD said “I AM WHO I AM” In Exodus 3:14. Therefore, because Jesus, 2 of the 4 words are the same (I am), Trinitarians believe that Jesus was claiming to be THE GOD.

Click on image to enlarge. Link here: John 8:58 and 10:30-33,"I am."

I think we should delve in a little deeper here, and right away we can notice 10 important facts:

There is nothing said by Jesus in His statement of John 8:58, or anywhere, that He was or is referring to what His Father GOD said when” 
God said to Moses, “ I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘ I AM has sent me to you.’” ESV.

Trinitarians, who say and believe Jesus was referring to being GOD at Mount Sinai, are simply making their own assumptions and provide no Biblical facts whatsoever.

Although, I Am that I Am (אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה ’ehyeh ’ăšer ’ehyeh [ʔɛhˈjɛh ʔaˈʃɛr ʔɛhˈjɛh]) is the most popular and common English translation, there is much debate by scholars to whether this famous verse was instead: “I will be” or, “I shall be” or, “I Will Be What I Will Be,

If any of the translations above are correct, this would then prove to be another big problem for those who teach Jesus was referring to Himself being GOD, because Jesus said (I am) Greek words: ἐγὼ εἰμί, and therefor would have NO connection with what GOD may have said, if the translation is any of the ones saying:  “I will be” or, “I shall be” or, “I Will Be What I Will Be,”

We read on: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
I Am that I Am. 
Both the literal present tense "I Am" and the future tense "I will be" have given rise to many attendant theological and mystical implications in Jewish tradition. 

Jesus did not say the whole sentence as it was said: “I AM WHO I AM” in Exodus 3:14.
Jesus only said “I am”, which is simply not the same as Exodus 3:14, and was not frightened to say the whole sentence “I AM WHO I AM” if He were indeed GOD, Himself.

Notice, at this stage there is NO mention by the Jews believing Jesus was claiming to be GOD, until we get to John 10:30.
Many believe the reason why the Jews wanted to stone Jesus for saying (I am), was because it was the last straw.
And if we go back just 14 verses, we read how Jesus most certainly upset them by saying?
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. John 8:44.
After the REBELLIOUS Jews being told their father is the devil, and they do the devils desires, I am shore they were most certainly full of anger which then caused them to snap at verse John 8:59, having a reason to now stone Jesus being full of anger as they did not like the truth, as Jesus said: But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. John 8:45.

And the Jews even went on to insult Jesus by saying: The Jews answered him, “Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?” John 8:48.

When we look at the previous heated conversation between Jesus and the Jews, we see a logical reason why they wanted to stone Jesus, not because they believed at this stage Jesus was claiming to be GOD at Mount Sinai, but that the rebellious Jews had now run out of patience and they did not like the truth that took them beyond the limit.

It is very possible the Jews also did not understand Jesus when He said He and the Father were ONE, by thinking Jesus meant He was ONE GOD with the Father, instead of understanding Jesus meant He was ONE in UNITY and AGREEMENT.

“I am” was a popular saying, and can actually be found in the Bible over 700 times.

The conversation between the Jews and Jesus was about Jesus confirming that He already existed in GOD’s mind and plan before Abraham was born. This can be seen when the Jews said: Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? John 8:57.

8. This adds up perfectly with the LEXICON translation, which clearly reveals the “I am”: εἰμί eimi.   The definition here means (I am the one) “I exist” meaning Jesus already existed in GODS mind and plan as (precedence).

Jesus is considered as first priority in importance, order and rank, which is confirmed by John the Baptist in John 1:15, John 1:30, which is again why we read in Colossians 1:17 Jesus is before all things, who is the chosen Messiah.

Notice how the Trinitarians themselves confirm the translation in John 8:58 means: I am, (exist)? And say NOTHING about the translation meaning Jesus is GOD, or that Jesus ALWAYS EXISTED, which is what we would expect, as Trinitarians themselves believe in John 8:58. Jesus was referring to being GOD in Exodus 3:14.

The Preeminence of Christ
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. English Standard Version.

16 for in him were all things created that are in the heavens and that are on the earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or lordships, or principalities or authorities: all things have been created through him and for him. 
17 and he is before all things, and all things in him consist;
18 and he is the head of the body, and the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that he himself might become in all things pre-eminent. Codex Sinaiticus.

Colossians 1:15

Colossians 1:15,16.
Colossians 1:16, and 17. Greek.

Here is a good explanation regarding what Jesus meant in John 8:56: 
Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”
by my good friend Mr Dudley Barns.

The principle of what Jesus said is found in Heb 11:13-19.

These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but “having seen them” and “greeted” them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.   

Note the same thought of John 8:56.   

Abraham looked forward to living in the new world.(v16) saw it and rejoiced (John 8:56) The word (greeted) in Heb 11:13 mean REJOICED.

Jesus is the one to fulfil those promises God made towards those faithful ones.   

Jesus is the “first” to be resurrected to the new world or new creation. 

Therefore “before” Abraham exists in the new world, Jesus has to exist before him. 

Jesus is the resurrection and the life through whom Abraham gets forgiveness of sin and life in the new world.

This is what Abraham saw with his eyes of faith when he offered Isaac. (Heb 11:17-19).

I am?

Now further to that, is the issue of “I AM” so here is what it means. 

(I am) is simply a common phrase that refer to anyone. 

For Example. Old Testament Ruth (Ruth 2:13), Jonathan, (1 Sam 23:17), Hushai (2 Sam 16:18), David (1 Sam 18:18), Job (Job 12:4) Jephthah (Jdg 11:9) and many more have used it to refer to themselves. 

Examples NT Gabriel (Luke 1:19), Judas (Matt 26:25), the blind man (John 9:9), Peter (Acts 10:21) and Paul (Acts 22:3, 26:29, Rom 11:13, 1 Tim 1:15) It is a normal thing to say “I am” for anyone. It has no special properties that make it distinct to God. 

It is not a secret code or the actual name of God. It is actually giving a meaning to the word YHWH. God was “reassuring” Moses he would be “with him” as Moses was reluctant to go back to Egypt. v12 of Ex 3. He was God almighty, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (v6), meaning he will be who he is, (God Almighty) and he will be with Moses. He need not fear and Moses does not need any other name as God is who he is. It relates back to verse 6,11,12. 

Christendom has turned it into a personal name. So any reference to “I am” as God, is a fabrication. If Jesus was making any reference to Ex 3:14 he would have said I am Yehovah, not I am. Trinitarians, and it seems Oneness believers assume this is quoting Exodus as a proof text of Jesus pre-existence. 

However there is nothing in the context that is even relative to what had been in the conversation with Jesus and the unbelievers at Exodus. There is, however, a reference to Abraham seeing Jesus's day! As we have all ready discussed at  v56 So it is obvious Jesus was NOT quoting Ex 3 but Gen 22 where the figurative lamb = God's only begotten son was pictured as the sacrifice through whom they would receive the forgiveness of their sins which incidentally Jesus made references to about them dying in there sins.  John 8:24 All these points are relative to Jn 8. proving Jesus is that one. How did the unbelieving Jews respond? 

They INCORRECTLY quoted Jesus words, by saying:-- ** Jn 8:57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham? Again the Jews had MISUNDERSTOOD what he was teaching and were looking for something to justify killing him. Notice! Jesus had NOT SAID (HE) had seen Abraham. But that Abraham had seen his day!! 

And Jesus concluded by pointing out that he was before Abraham time as the one (lamb) slaughtered before the founding of the world, before Abraham came into existence. Jesus is fulfilling Messianic prophecies, And the whole gist of John's gospel is that we may know the Jesus is the Messiah (Christ) the son of God. Jn 20:31. (NOT God). 

Now one thing more, the expression, “before Abraham WAS” I exist. Jesus is speaking in the present tense and Abraham was dead and buried, when he says truly “I SAY” to you. The word translated “WAS” is “ginomai”   

Bible Hub. MEANING..properly, to emerge, become, transitioning from one point (realm, condition) to another. 1096 (gínomai) fundamentally means "become" (becoming, became) so it is not an exact equivalent to the ordinary equative verb "to be" (is, was, will be) as with 1510 /eimí (1511/eínai, 2258 /ēn). 1096 (ginomai) means "to become, and signifies a change of condition, state or place" (Vine, Unger, White, NT, 109). M. Vincent, "1096 (gínomai) means to come into being/manifestation implying motion, movement, or growth" (at 2 Pet 1:4). Thus it is used for God’s actions as emerging from eternity and becoming (showing themselves) in time (physical space).   

So Jesus is saying, in the present tense that for Abraham to come into existence (again) or (to be born again) THAT IS, for him to literally exist again, than, He (Jesus) has to exist before him to provide the ransom.  

It is not complicated it is only confusing because of Trinitarians misinterpret the Jews words as Authentic, when in fact they were plotting to KILL him by bringing a false charge of blasphemy against Jesus. 

The Jews are FALSE WITNESSES. So we should not be placing our trust in these UNBELIEVING Jews. Sorry for such a long explanation. Be at peace my friend. Dudley.


“I am” is the Greek idiom for “I am he,” or “I am the one”. Did the blind man in 9:9 say, “I am God”?! “It’s me” is the meaning, as everyone should know.

The conversation between Jesus and the Jews would be completely out of context if Jesus was saying: I AM THE SAME PERSON AS THE ONE TRUE GOD, because the Jews were telling Jesus Abraham was born before Him, in which Jesus rectified them.

Up date thanks to TheTribeOfJudahTeach, video, (See below).

The same and IDENTICAL Greek word, εἰμί eimi “I am”, was also used by the angel Gabriel, in Luke 1:19, when he said: (εἰμί eimi) “I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God.  But we all know the angel Gabriel, was NOT claiming to be GOD.

St Paul also said the same IDENTICAL words as GOD.
St Paul said: But by the grace of God I am what I am. 1 Corinthians 15:10.

God said to Moses, “ I AM WHO I AM.” Exodus 3:14.
We all know St Paul was NOT claiming to be GOD.

Also notice in Exodus 3:2? And the angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed.  As we read: And the angel of the LORD acted and spoke for GOD and: appeared to him (Moses) in a flame of fire. If the Trinitarian claim is true that Jesus was referring to being GOD as Mount Sinai, then Trinitarians are saying Jesus is the angel, because we are told: And the angel of the LORD acted and spoke for GOD and: appeared to him (Moses) in a flame of fire.
If Jesus is meant to be GOD who sent His Angel, then where is GOD the Father?

THE MANY, I am's, (he) John 4:26.

THE MANY, I am's, (he)

λέγει αὐτῇ ὁ Ἰησοῦς,Ἐγώ εἰμι, ὁ     λαλῶν            σοι
Says to her - Jesus I  am [he] who am speaking to you
◄ John 4:26 ►

John 4 Interlinear
This is why Jesus used the many same statements in His teachings of John saying,
I am the bread of life. John 6:35 
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” John 6:51
Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”  John 8:12
I am from above. John 8:23
So Jesus said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me. John 8:28
I am the light of the world. John 9:5
I am the door, John 10:9
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. John 10:11
I am the Son of God’? John 10:36
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, John 11:25
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. John 15:1
When Jesus said to them, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground. John 18:6
Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he. So, if you seek me, let these men go.” John 18:8

So Jesus said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me. John 8:28
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” John 8:58.
BY Romero says 10 months ago.
 Simon Brown  This might help! The 'traditional' translation of the Hebrew In Exd 3:14 is "I am who I am", but this is not the best, nor true rendering! The true Hebrew literally means "TO BECOME" or "TO BE", and is best rendered as " I WILL BE WHO I WILL BE" which has no connection to "I (ego) am (eimi)" used throughout the N.T. 
And yes, the reality here is that "ego eimi" is often used to identify ones self as the person of subject, and NOT a divine being, but rather the Greek for "I am he", or "I am the man" or I am the one you are speaking about/in question.The 'I am' statements of Jesus in context indicates that Jesus is the Messiah in question of whom the Jews seek.

Does (I am), mean, (I am) GOD, John 8:58?

No comments:

Post a Comment